Isa ibnu Maryam dalah Jenis Manusia dia adalah Mahluk (Isa AlMasih )
adalah yang diciptakan . Sedangkan Tuhan adalah Yang menciptakan (Al
Kholiq).
Sedangkan kaum nasoro mengatakan bahwa Isa Almasih adalah Tuhan Yessus.
Sedang umat Islam Mengatakan Bahwa Isa Almasih adalah seorang nabi
(Rasul yang diutus kepada kaum nasoro).
Jadi dalam soal ini sampai kapan pun tak akan bisa bertemu Karna ini
adalah hal yang pundamental Sangat prinsif.
Jadi masing masing kita mengamalkan keyakinan kita masing masing tidak
untuk memaksakan kepada orang lain.
Bagi umat Islam sampai kapan pun tidak akan mau meyakini bahwa Isa
itu anak tuhan apalagi sebagai TUHAN.
Karna Isa Al Masih tetap Sorang nabi dan rosul Tidak mungkin mahluk
bisa berubah menjadi kholiq atau pencipta atau Tuhan.
Karna kalau Isa Al A|Masih dalah tuhan sedangkan Isa Almasih
dilahirkan oleh ibunya Maryam sekitar 2000 tahun yang lampau, Jadi
sebelum itu tidak ada tuhan zaman Nabi Ibrahim (Abraham) belum ada
tuhan begitu?
2009/7/31, rizal lingga <nyomet123@yahoo.com>:
> Benar bahwa kebangkitan Yesus adalah soal iman bagi kami Kristen. Tapi yang
> kita bicarakan disini adalah kesaksian fakta sejarah bahkan dari orang2 non
> Kristen yang mengatakan bahwa Yesus itu MATI dan dikuburkan, sedangkan
> pernyataan alquran adalah tanpa saksi mata dan lebih dari 600 tahun sejak
> peristiwa itu terjadi, dimana kalian percaya kata alquran bahwa Isa diangkat
> hidup2 dan ada yang diserupakan dengan dia wajahnya.
> Itu bertentangan dengan kata mereka yang sepenuhnya percaya bahwa Yesus
> mati dan dikuburkan di Talpiot. Sebagian besar ahli arkeologi mengatakan
> kubur Talpiot itu benar Yoshua, tapi bukan Yoshua yang dari Nazaret, tapi
> Yoshua dari Yerusalem (bacalah penjelasan dibawah yang dalam bahasa Inggris
> itu.)
> Berarti orangnya berbeda. Namun dalam satu hal mereka semua sepakat, bahwa
> Yesus itu MATI dan DIKUBURKAN, tidak seperti kata alquran.
> Itu saja.
>
> --- On Mon, 7/27/09, satutimotius tujuhbelas
> <satutimotius.tujuhbelas@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> From: satutimotius tujuhbelas <satutimotius.tujuhbelas@gmail.com>
> Subject: [Milis_Iqra] Re: Jesus' Tomb in Talpiot
> To: Milis_Iqra@googlegroups.com
> Date: Monday, July 27, 2009, 3:01 PM
>
>
>
> Buat seluruh kaum Muslimin di milis ini kenapa Kaum Kristen sangat
> mempedulikan kematian dan kebangkitan Yesus karena itu hal yang wajib
> dipercayai sebagai konsekuensi "iman" mereka. Jadi kita bisa paham betapa
> sukarnya Rizal mempertahankan hal tersebut, tanpa kematian dan kebangkitan,
> 'imannya = nothing.....
>
> Dalam segala keadaan, jika ada perbedaan antara seorang Muslim dan seorang
> Kristen dalam hal dogma, keyakinan, etika atau moral, maka penyebab konflik
> ini bisa dicari dalam buku yang dibuat Paulus yaitu Korintus, Philipus,
> Balatia, Tesalonika dan lain-lain, dalam Injil.
> Bertentangan dengan ajaran Yesus bahwa keselamatan hanya bisa didapat dengan
> cara menuruti segala perintah (Matius 19: 16-17), Paulus telah memakukan
> hukum dan perintah di kayu salib (Kolose 2: 14) dan mengaku bahwa
> keselamatan hanya bisa didapat melalui kematian dan kebangkitan Yesus:
>
> "Tetapi andaikata Kristus tidak dibangkitkan, maka sia-sialah pemberitaan
> kami, dan sia-sialah kepercayaanmu." (Injil - 1 Korintus 15: 14).
> Tokoh Dalam Ajaran Kristen
> Menurut Paulus, tidak ada yang ditawarkan oleh agama Kristen kepada umat
> manusia selain darah dan nyawa Yesus. Jika Yesus tidak meninggal, dan dia
> tidak dibangkitkan dari kematian, maka tidak akan ada penyelamatan dalam
> Kristen! "Dan segala kesalehan kami, seperti kain kotor." (Injil - Yesaya
> 64: 6).
> Tanpa Penyaliban - Tidak Ada Agama Kristen
> "Kematian Yesus di kayu salib adalah pusat dari semua ajaran agama Kristen
> ... Semua ajaran Kristen tentang Tuhan, tentang makhluk, tentang dosa dan
> kematian mempunyai point yang vokal dalam kebangkitan Yesus. Semua ajaran
> Kristen tentang sejarah, tentang masa depan, tentang Gereja, keyakinan dan
> kepercayaan semuanya berasal dari kebangkitan kembali Yesus",
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 3:25 PM, rizal lingga <nyomet123@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> Buat kalian Muslim, yang penting adalah membantah dan menyangsikan kesaksian
> dari para penulis Alkitab bahwa Yesus itu ditangkap, disalibkan dan mati,
> kemudian dikuburkan, dan bangkit dari maut pada hari ke tiga.
> Bantahan itu merupakan keharusan untuk mempertahankan kebenaran Alquran.
> Karena bagi kalian Alquran harus benar sekalipun tanpa saksi mata dan
> ditulis lebih dari 600 tahun setelah lahirnya agama Kristen, dibandingkan
> dengan Alkitab yang ditulis oleh beberapa saksi mata yang pernah melihat dan
> bertemu langsung dengan Yesus sendiri, baik hidup maupun ketika mati.
> Kalian harus mengatakan alquran yang benar. Tak ada pilihan lain. Sekalipun
> bantahan kalian tak punya dukungan ilmiah, tidak penting bagi kalian. Apa
> yang dikatakan alquran sudah cukup dan hanya itu yang benar.
>
> Nah, silahkan baca artikel ini, jika masih mau obyektif.
>
>
> The Jesus Family Tomb:
> Fact or Fiction?
> Jesus' Bones Discovered?
> Has the tomb of Jesus Christ been discovered in the Jerusalem suburb of
> Talpiot?
> In a 2007 Discovery Channel TV documentary, producer James Cameron (The
> Titanic) and Jewish director, Simcha Jacobovici, attempted to prove that
> Jesus' burial cave and bones were discovered near Jerusalem. Cameron and
> Jacobovici further cited evidence that Jesus sired a son with Mary
> Magdalene.
> If Jesus Christ's tomb has really been discovered, then all of Christian
> history has been based upon a false claim---that Jesus physically rose from
> the dead, was seen alive by over 500 followers at once, spent 40 days
> teaching his disciples, and then ascended into heaven. But before we get
> caught up in another Da Vinci type conspiracy, let's look at the facts
> behind Cameron's claims.
> The Facts Claimed:
> 1. In 1980 ten limestone bone boxes (ossuaries) dated to the first century,
> were discovered in an excavated tomb in the Jerusalem suburb of Talpiot.
> 2. Six inscriptions were discovered with names similar to or the same as
> some of Jesus Christ's family and disciples:
>
>
> Jesua, son of Joseph,
>
> Mary
>
> Mariamene e Mara
>
> Mathew
>
> Jofa
>
> Judah, son of Jesua.
> 3. Cameron attempts to prove that Mariamene e Mara is Mary of Magdalene, and
> that she and Jesus had a son named "Judah son of Jesua".
> 4. DNA analysis identifies that tissues from the ossuaries of Jesua and
> Mariamene e Mara were not related, raising the possibility they may have
> been married and had a child.
> Checking the Evidence
> So, what are the odds that this is Jesus' tomb? According to Cameron and
> Jacobovici, the statistical improbability of these names belonging to
> another family than that of Jesus Christ is 600 to 1. However, scholars
> challenge many of the assumptions in their interpretation of the facts.
> Let's look:
> 1. It is true that these ossuaries were discovered in an ancient tomb. But
> thousands of similar tombs have been discovered in Jerusalem. And ossuaries
> were often used for the bones of more than one individual. In fact,
> according to Dr. Craig Evans, PhD, author of Jesus and the Ossuaries, the
> tomb carried the bones of about 35 different individuals, and about half
> were from these ossuaries. Evans also notes that there was considerable
> contamination of the site.
> 2. Are Cameron and Jacobovici correct about the names they assert are on the
> ossuaries? Not according to many experts. Some were written in Aramaic,
> others in Hebrew, and another in Greek. This indicates they were not buried
> in a similar time period. It is not even clear that "Jesus" is named on any
> of the ossuaries. Dr. Evans's personal examination of the ossuary was
> inconclusive. Stephen Pfann, a biblical scholar at the University of the
> Holy Land in Jerusalem, is also unsure that the name "Jesus" on the caskets
> was read correctly. He thinks it's more likely the name "Hanun." Ancient
> Semitic script is notoriously difficult to decipher.
> Additionally, it should be noted that the names of Jesus, Mary, and Joseph
> were extremely common in the first century. About 25% of the women in Jesus'
> day were named Mary. Joseph was also a common name. And about one in ten had
> the name, "Jesua". Dr. Evans indicates that approximately 100 tombs have
> been discovered in Jerusalem with the name "Jesus" and 200 with the name
> "Joseph." The name "Mary" is on far more.
> "Each name with the exception of Mariamene seemed common to their period,
> and it was only in 1996 that the BBC made a film suggesting that, given the
> combination, it might be that family. The idea was eventually discounted,
> however, because, as New Testament scholar Richard Bauckham asserted 'the
> names with Biblical resonance are so common that even when you run the
> probabilities on the group, the odds of it being the famous Jesus' family
> are "very low."
> 3. The statistical support for the entire "Jesus tomb" theory rises or falls
> on the question of Mary Magdalene. So did the name Mariamene e Mara mean
> Mary Magdalene, as Cameron and Jacobovici attempt to prove? Not according to
> most experts. Their interpretation is simply not supported by evidence.
> Bauckham notes, "The first use of 'Mariamene' for Magdalene dates to a
> scholar who was born in 185, suggesting that Magdalene wouldn't have been
> called that at her death. "
> So, even though Cameron and Jacobovici employed a statistician, Andrey
> Feuerverger, to support their case, his numbers were based upon assumptions
> disputed by the majority of scholars. In fact, Feuerverger himself admits
> that the assumptions were given to him by Jacobovici, and that the single
> biggest factor in his 600 to 1 odds was the identity of Mariamene e Mara
> being Mary of Magdalene. Feuerverger defends his role in an interview with
> Scientific American, "I did permit the number one in 600 to be used in the
> film—I'm prepared to stand behind that but on the understanding that these
> numbers were calculated based on assumptions that I was asked to use."
> Yet Dr. Randy Ingermanson's statistical analysis of the probability
> indicates that there is less than one chance in 10,000 that this was the
> tomb of Jesus of Nazareth.
> 4. But what about the DNA tests? Doesn't that prove Jesus was in the tomb?
> Let's look closer at what the DNA test measured. It took residue (there were
> no bones to examine) from the ossuaries Jacobovici identified as belonging
> to both Jesua and Mariamene, and used mitochondrial DNA testing to see if
> they were related. The results proved to be negative, indicating to him that
> the two individuals were not related maternally. He thus assumes the two
> were married. But Bauckham isn't impressed. He writes, "If 'Jesus' and
> 'Mariamene' weren't related matrilineally, why jump to the conclusion that
> they were husband and wife, rather than being related through their fathers?
> "
> It is the fact that these particular names have been discovered in the same
> tomb that has fueled speculation that it really could be Jesus' tomb. But
> many scholars believe Cameron and Jacobovici have skewed the evidence to
> build a case that just isn't there. Additionally, there are many
> contradictory questions that need to be answered before one jumps to a
> conclusion that overturns centuries of historical scholarship.
> If It Really Was Jesus' Tomb–
> 1. Why don't Cameron and Jacobovici cite scholars who disagree with their
> conclusions? For example, in 1996, when the British Broadcasting Corp. aired
> a short documentary on the same subject, archaeologists challenged the
> claims. In fact, the vast majority of archaeologists dispute their claim.
> 2. Since the custom was to bury the dead in their home town, why would Mary
> and Joseph's family tomb be in Jerusalem instead of Nazareth? Middle East
> researcher and biblical anthropologist Joe Zias states, "It has nothing
> whatsoever to do with Jesus, he was known as Jesus of Nazareth, not Jesus of
> Jerusalem, and if the family was wealthy enough to afford a tomb, which they
> probably weren't, it would have been in Nazareth, not here in Jerusalem."
> Zias dismisses Cameron's claims as "dishonest".
> 3. Why didn't Jesus' enemies, the Jewish leaders, expose the tomb? They
> searched unsuccessfully throughout Jerusalem for any evidence of Jesus'
> body, claiming that Jesus' disciples had stolen it. They hated Jesus enough
> to want him crucified, and would have been elated to discover his tomb, if
> it indeed existed.
> 4. Why didn't the Romans expose the inscriptions as belonging to Jesus?
> Roman soldiers controlled the entire city of Jerusalem, and they knew his
> body was missing from a tomb they had been guarding.
> 5. Why didn't contemporary Roman or Jewish historians write about the tomb?
> Not one single contemporary historian mentions the tomb in question.
> 6. Why was the James Ossuary, which has been labeled a forgery, cited by
> Cameron and Jacobovici as one of the reasons for the tomb's validity? CBS
> News correspondent Mark Philips reports "the archeological establishment has
> lined up to label this claim as bunk. This is the second time The Discovery
> Channel has been involved in a disputed claim about an ancient tomb,"
> reports Phillips. The man at the center of the previous case is now facing
> trial for forgery." Ben Witherington, an early Christianity expert who was
> deeply involved with the James Ossuary, says "there are physical reasons to
> believe it couldn't have originated in the Talpiot plot."
> 7. Why are Jacobovici and Cameron waiting until just prior to Easter to
> launch both the book and documentary? Amos Kloner, the first archaeologist
> to examine the site, said the idea fails to hold up by archaeological
> standards but makes for profitable television. "They just want to get money
> for it," Kloner said.
> 8. Why would Jesus' disciples endure torture for claiming he was
> resurrected, if they knew it was a hoax? New Testament scholar Darrell Bock
> asks, "why would Jesus' family or followers bury his bones in a family plot
> and then turn around and preach that he had been physically raised from the
> dead?"
>
>
>
> Asking the Experts
> Stephen Pfann, who was interviewed in the documentary, said the film's
> hypothesis holds little weight. "I don't think that Christians are going to
> buy into this," Pfann said. "But skeptics, in general, would like to see
> something that pokes holes into the story that so many people hold dear."
> "How possible is it?" Pfann said. "On a scale of one through 10 – 10 being
> completely possible – it's probably a one, maybe a one and a half."
> Osnat Goaz, a spokeswoman for the Israeli government agency responsible for
> archaeology, said the Antiquities Authority agreed to send two ossuaries to
> New York, but they did not contain human remains. "We agreed to send the
> ossuaries, but it doesn't mean that we agree with" the filmmakers, she said.
> William Dever, an expert on near eastern archaeology and anthropology, who
> has worked with Israeli archeologists for five decades, said specialists
> have known about the ossuaries for years. "The fact that it's been ignored
> tells you something," said Dever, professor emeritus at the University of
> Arizona. "It would be amusing if it didn't mislead so many people."
> In fact, Cameron and Jacobovici are not the only ones to assert Jesus' tomb
> has been discovered. Let's look at others who have cited "evidence" in books
> and on websites:
> Scholar's Verdict
> So has Jesus' tomb really been discovered? To find out, let's hear from
> leading experts.
> Jodi Magness, an archaeologist at the University of North Carolina at Chapel
> Hill, expressed irritation that the claims were made at a news conference
> rather than in a peer-reviewed scientific article. By going directly to the
> media, she said, the filmmakers "have set it up as if it's a legitimate
> academic debate, when the vast majority of scholars who specialize in
> archaeology of this period have flatly rejected this," she said.
> Magness noted that at the time of Jesus, wealthy families buried their dead
> in tombs cut by hand from solid rock, putting the bones in niches in the
> walls and then, later, transferring them to ossuaries.
> She said Jesus came from a poor family that, like most Jews of the time,
> probably buried their dead in ordinary graves. "If Jesus' family had been
> wealthy enough to afford a rock-cut tomb, it would have been in Nazareth,
> not Jerusalem," she said.
> Magness also said the names on the Talpiyot ossuaries indicate that the tomb
> belonged to a family from Judea, the area around Jerusalem, where people
> were known by their first name and father's name. As Galileans, Jesus and
> his family members would have used their first name and home town, she said.
> "This whole case [for the tomb of Jesus] is flawed from beginning to end,"
> she said.
> And that conclusion seems to be the consensus of the vast number of
> archaeologists. As an unbiased scholar who has been excavating ancient sites
> in Israel for 50 years,William G. Dever shares that view. He is widely
> considered the dean of biblical archaeology among U.S. scholars. Dever
> writes,
> "I'm not a Christian. I'm not a believer. I don't have a dog in this fight,
> I just think it's a shame the way this story is being hyped and
> manipulated."
> The Resurrection of Jesus: Myth or Reality
> But aside from the tomb, the unanswered question for many is: what evidence
> exists in the 21st century that proves or disproves Jesus' resurrection? The
> recent media attention about "The Jesus Family Tomb" calls for an honest
> investigation into the evidence. Some skeptics thought there wasn't any
> evidence and began writing books to disprove Jesus' resurrection. What
> surprising evidence did they discover?
> Click here to take a look at the evidence for the most fantastic claim ever
> made---the resurrection of Jesus Christ!
>
>
>
> Did Jesus Say What Happens After We Die?
> If Jesus really did rise from the dead, then he must know what is on the
> other side. What did Jesus say about the meaning of life and our future? Are
> there many ways to God or did Jesus claim to be the only way? Read the
> startling answers in "Why Jesus?"
> Click here to read "Why Jesus?" and discover what Jesus said about life
> after death.
>
>
>
> Can Jesus Bring Meaning To Life?
> "Why Jesus?" looks at the question of whether or not Jesus is relevant
> today. Can Jesus answer the big questions of life: "Who am I?" "Why am I
> here?" And, "Where am I going?" Dead cathedrals and crucifixes have led some
> to believe that he can't, and that Jesus has left us to cope with a world
> out of control. But Jesus made claims about life and our purpose here on
> earth that need to be examined before we write him off as uncaring or
> impotent. This article examines the mystery of why Jesus came to earth.
> Click here to discover how Jesus can bring meaning to life.
>
>
>
> Permission to reproduce this article: Publisher grants permission to
> reproduce this material without written approval, but only in its entirety
> and only for non-profit use. No part of this material may be altered or used
> out of context without publisher's written permission. Printed copies of
> Y-Origins and Y-Jesus magazine may be ordered at:
>
> www.JesusOnline.com/product_page
> © 2007 B&L Publications. This article is a supplement to Y-Jesus magazine by
> Bright Media Foundation & B&L Publications: Larry Chapman, Chief Editor.
>
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Serulah kepada jalan Tuhanmu dengan hikmah dan pelajaran yang baik
dan bantahlah mereka dengan cara yang lebih baik. -Qs. 16 an-Nahl :125
Berilah mereka pelajaran, dan katakanlah kepada mereka perkataan yang berbekas pada jiwa mereka. -Qs. 4 an-Nisa' : 63
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